Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this interview are those of Leroy Nguyen’s and do not necessarily reflect the views of City on Fire and/or its partners.
The following is an interview with indie action filmmaker, Leroy Nguyen. He’s been around for awhile, but most of you probably never heard of him, so here’s a quick intro: Leroy Nguyen is the director, actor, writer, editor and action choreographer of Black Scar Blues, his multiple award-winning 2015 independent debut feature.
The reason I seeked out Leroy for an interview is simple: I’m a fan of his work. His films are noticeably different than the other “indie action filmmakers” in his class. If you’re looking to see a bunch of guys trying to fit as many kicks as they can in a single jump, look elsewhere. There’s definitely noteworthy action in his films (he’s the holder of “Best Action Sequence” at The Urban Action Showcase International), but what really makes this guy tick are his influences taken from the likes of Martin Scorsese, Takeshi Kitano and Nicolas Winding Refn. Without doubt, there’s a spot held for his raw, grittier style of action, but they’re tucked in between flawed, relatable characters and a narrative that oozes with raw emotion.
His latest film, Silverback – which took home two awards at the 2019 Urban Action Showcase – was just released last month, so I decided to catch up with him after giving it watch. And what was supposed to be a typical “tell us about your new film” interview turned into a revealing look into the mind of a unhinged artist who is not afraid to speak his mind, no matter what the cost.
“Black Scar Blues” Theatrical Poster
Which is your better film: Black Scar Blues or Silverback?
Silverback. I think creatively I’m just really happy with it. Not 100% satisfied, but this was a huge step in the right direction.
And what direction is that?
There’s a vision in my head for my ideal film. It’s all about balancing out the different aspects from different films that I love and combining them into a single narrative. Black Scar Blues was the first step. Silverback pushes that further.
Why did you choose Black Scar Blues as a “feature” film and Silverback as a “short”?
Black Scar Blues started out as a short and ended up being a feature. Silverback started as a feature and eventually became a short. For Black Scar Blues, I really wanted to turn it into a feature because, at the time, the footage we got was so different from everything else we did. For us, it was some of the most cinematic stuff we’ve ever done. We kept telling ourselves that this was THE ONE, our big break. We didn’t just want to release it online like we did with all of our other work at the time. We wanted to see how far we could take it just because of how special that initial footage was. For Silverback, it was a purely creative decision to transform it from a feature to a short. I really would’ve wanted to release it as a feature, and it was ready to go at multiple points. But I just wasn’t happy with it in its feature form. The story was there, the pieces were all there, but it was just so rough that I couldn’t bring myself to release it that way, even if we did win a few awards with it.
“When the judge ruled in my favor during the court case I was involved in, he said that as an artist, I have a responsibility with my art. I thought to myself – No I don’t”
Why did Silverback take almost 9 years to complete?
Well, the initial production went off without a hitch. It only took a few months to shoot, edit, and finish the film, which was during the summer of 2011. But then I ran into some…” unpleasantness” upon the film’s release in early 2012, so I just let it sit in the vault for six, seven years. But it always lingered in my mind, so that’s why I came back to it all these years later. Now, it shares the same DNA as the original version, but it’s not the same film. The original 2012 feature-length version was about a break-up. The 2020 short film version, and even the unreleased 2019 revised feature version, was about the moving-on process. It’s like both a remake and its own sequel at once. It reflects where I am in my life and who I am as a person and artist.
Black Scar Blues took almost as long, but for totally different reasons. That production was never smooth and was much less personal compared to Silverback. I think it had to do with the evolving nature of the project and the stakes that were involved at the time. I just kept on learning more and more during that period, and so I kept changing the film along with how I was sort of changing and growing.
In short, Black Scar Blues was about me growing as a filmmaker. Silverback was about me growing as a human being.
Note from the editor: I couldn’t follow Nguyen’s off again/on again timeline regarding the making of Black Scar Blues and Silverback, so being the visual person I am, I asked him to draw it out for me, which resulted in the illustration above.
Why are you called a controversial filmmaker?
Because I don’t give a fuck.
Explain.
Well, I guess it all stems from the original version of Silverback. It was a film that had so much passion, emotion, and anger behind it. It had A TON of shortcomings, but the reason I revisited it all these years later was because I couldn’t shake just how powerful the film felt to me. I made the film because of how I felt at that particular point in my life. No compromises. When the judge ruled in my favor during the court case I was involved in, he said that as an artist, I have a responsibility with my art. I thought to myself, “no I don’t”. The only responsibility I have is to myself and to make sure that I am honest in my expression in my work. That’s the only responsibility there is with art.
Wait a minute, you were in front of a judge because one of your films?
Yup. Silverback. I had gotten out of a really bad relationship at the time and the film was a representation of all the heinous shit I was feeling. That was literally the worst time of my life at that point. So I handled things the only way I knew how, which was to make a film about it. And making that film saved me. Otherwise, I don’t know where I’d be now. That’s how bad a shape I was in emotionally.
So then my ex eventually caught wind of the film. Once she saw it, she knew. She knew what it was. So she started making trouble for me. Getting the law involved. The fuzz. The man. She had a detective show up at my job and everything. The dude was really cool though, and he helped me get through the whole thing (he even really liked the film). Before I knew it I was in court. Then that’s when I realized that this whole thing was more than just about me and her. This was a case of my ideals against the world. That’s how I saw it at least. And it was from then on I realized that I NEED to be honest with myself and with my movies. That’s who I am.
I can clown around and be some Jackie Chan, action-comedy bullshit wannabe with the best of them, and that’s how I started out. But that’s not who I am anymore. I don’t feel good about those types of projects. I’ll do them, but I don’t feel good about them. They’re not me. Not to say that I’m a gangster or anything, but if I’m to work on a project, it has to come from an honest place.
“Silverback” Promotional Poster
Speaking of gangsters, the ‘gangster’ element is present in both Black Scar Blues and Silverback. What are the gangster films that inspired you the most?
Man, there are a ton. But if I had to narrow it down to say, three, then the first would be Brother by Takeshi Kitano. It holds a special place in my heart because it was the first Kitano film I ever saw. It may not be on the same emotional level with Hana-Bi, but it introduced me to the Yakuza genre and Kitano’s unusual arthouse style. The second would be Scorese’s Mean Streets. I love the idea of the “low-level” gangster, the loser hood, and DeNiro’s Johnny Boy character epitomized that. The relationship between him and Harvey Keitel’s character is the basis of what I wanted to do with Black Scar Blues. Lastly, Nicolas Winding Refn’s Pusher trilogy really showed me that gritty, ugly, real side of gangster cinema. The cinematography in those films have practically defined the look of mine.
If we looked at your personal Blu-ray/DVD collection, name a few movies we would find?
I’m a bigger Godzilla fan than I am almost anything else, so you’d see practically every Godzilla film ever made sitting on my shelf. Just recently, I got this $300 Japanese collector’s edition of Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019). I didn’t even like the film all that much, but I had to have it anyway. I also have a shelf dedicated to the work of my favorite filmmakers. Takashi Miike, Takeshi Kitano, Nicolas Winding Refn, Martin Scorsese, Quentin Tarantino, S. Craig Zahler, David Lynch, and Jackie Chan (in that order) all have a space there. Lucio Fulci’s Zombie is my favorite zombie film of all time, so I have both the Media Blasters special edition DVD and the more recently released Arrow Video Blu-ray on my shelf. The Blu-ray of A Bittersweet Life is one of my most prized possessions. I have Troma’s Combat Shock special edition DVD right next to my Deadbeat at Dawn Blu-Ray, followed by Massacre Mafia Style and Gone with The Pope Blu-rays. Oh, and Gummo and Trash Humpers by Harmony Korine! Man, you opened up a can of worms asking about my collection. I could go all day.
And how about your “recently watched” history – what did you just finish watching on streaming channels?
Hell’s Kitchen. Yeah, it’s a trash show, but I’m a huge fan of Gordon Ramsay. The man taught me how to cook. I really admire him as an artist. He makes me want to be a big asshole just so I can get stuff done in accordance to my own vision and standards. I’ve seen almost every season of this show. And as much as I HATE YouTube, I’m a collector of action figures, so my watch history is full of Godzilla toy review videos. And ghost-hunting videos. I like to creep myself out when I’m alone.
“The mall finale, with Jackie Chan’s absolutely furious performance, may be my favorite fight scene of all time”
And how do you think Gordon Ramsay would rate a meal cooked by you?
Shit. Utter, utter garbage. I can cook to my own tastes, but I also don’t have very high standards. I don’t think there was ever a time where I was dining out and returned my meal because I found something wrong with the food. I just ate it. I also don’t have a sense of smell, so I think that affects my taste buds and makes them weaker. I do know that chicken is my favorite, sashimi is delicious, and I hate bananas.
If you were stranded on an island and you can bring 2 Bruce Lee movies or 2 Jackie Chan movies, whose films would you pick? And which ones?
As much as I admire Bruce Lee, I have to go with Jackie Chan. His films are the reason I started making movies in the first place. Without a doubt, I’d pick Drunken Master II and Police Story. Those two are not only my favorite Jackie Chan films, but two of my favorite films of all time. I’m not as big a fan of period kung fu films as I used to be, but Drunken Master II is pretty much THE kung fu film for me. Strangely enough, beyond the obvious quality of the action, it’s the film’s pacing that I love the most. It’s the perfect length, and every fight scene makes sense within the story. Watching the finale for the first time had me trembling. As for Police Story, it’s not as good a film overall as Drunken Master II. It’s rough and the tone is all over the fucking place, but it’s downright reckless and I love it. The action choreography, while definitely intricate and choreographed-looking, FEELS real. The mall finale, with Chan’s absolutely furious performance, may be my favorite fight scene of all time. Really, I don’t think Chan has ever been able to top just how relentless, desperate, and Goddamn angry the choreography and performances are in this. Just look at that small one-on-one exchange he has with Fung Hark-On. The choreography is relatively basic and repetitive, but the two totally sell it with their incredible performances. This is the film I think of whenever someone mentions HK action cinema.
“For the record, I didn’t watch Crazy Rich Asians, and not because I didn’t want to support “the cause”. The movie just looked fucking obnoxious”
If you were given a big film budget with total creative freedom, what would be your ultimate dream project?
This is funny, because at one point my dream project was a film where Steven Seagal and Jean-Claude Van Damme fought each other, but they switch characters like in Face/Off. That was years ago, though. I’ve grown since then.
I have personal projects in mind that I definitely want to do, but I think those can be done within reason and without too much compromise. I ultimately want to do a film that’s a combination of both Black Scar Blues and Silverback. They were originally supposed to be the same movie anyway. But I just want to realize my take on a gangster action film with real human drama that resonates with the audience and action scenes that actually mean something. Think Refn’s Drive or A Bittersweet Life with a dash of Mean Streets. If I were to do something with actual big name actors though, then it would have to be something starring Choi Minsik and the late James Gandolfini. These two are my favorite actors and I would’ve loved to have done a gangster film with them. I WOULD say something starring Beat Takeshi as well, but outside of Blood and Bone, I’ve only really liked him as an actor in the films he’s directed himself. Other than that, I would absolutely love the chance to do a Godzilla film or a proper adaptation of Resident Evil.
As an Asian American filmmaker, what’s your take on “diversity” in film?
The only thing worse than a lack of diversity is forced diversity. So forced that you can feel it. Before you know it, you’re not watching characters. You’re watching actors of different ethnicities acting together in a movie not because the story required it, not because it makes sense narratively, but because we live in a time where pandering to people’s political correctness and over-sensitivity take priority over everything else. I’m all for equality, man! Don’t get me wrong. But Jesus Christ, don’t fucking patronize me. For the record, I didn’t watch Crazy Rich Asians (the “Asian Black Panther”), and not because I didn’t want to support “the cause”. The movie just looked fucking obnoxious. On the other side of that, I thought Mike Moh’s portrayal of Bruce Lee in Tarantino’s Once Upon a Time in Hollywood was absolutely brilliant. He captured the mannerisms perfectly, and he went way beyond the Bruce Lee “stereotype”, you know? His few minutes on screen were the highlight of the film for me.
“The only thing worse than a lack of diversity is forced diversity”
But then there was all that backlash afterwards saying the portrayal was disrespectful, it was a set back for Asians in Hollywood, blah, blah, blah. You know, if Shannon Lee was offended, I totally understand. That’s her dad. But everyone else needs to get fucking real. Like, this film was banned in China because of this?! Even my friends, these fellow Asian filmmakers, hated the portrayal. When I told them I actually liked it, they had the nerve to ask me if I had ever been picked on in school for being Asian, insinuating that I just didn’t understand what Bruce Lee meant to young Asian guys. Get the fuck outta here, man. I grew up in America with slanty eyes too, how the fuck do you think I was treated? But you know what? I didn’t let any that skew my perception growing up. I’m able to look beyond that kind of bullshit and appreciate things for what they are. Mike Moh’s performance was fantastic. If you’re unhappy with how minorities are being portrayed in film, no disrespect, then make your own fucking movie. Do it how you want to do it, because nobody is gonna do it for you. You gotta take this shit into your own hands, man. Get your vision out there, whatever it takes. That’s what I do. And I don’t represent anyone except for myself.
“Shannon Lee was offended, I totally understand. That’s her dad. But everyone else needs to get fucking real” –Leroy Nguyen
What are your thoughts on the current state of action cinema, and where do you fit in?
I’m no authority on mainstream cinema, so I won’t armchair anything. I will say that, minus a couple gems that are way too few and far between, everything looks the same now. And it’s all shallow, empty.
That whole “controversy” a few months ago regarding Martin Scorsese’s comments on how he doesn’t consider superhero films as “cinema”, it’s a totally valid point of view, and one that I completely agree with. The more often studios make these big, loud event films, the more the general audience buys into it and takes away the chances of smaller, more intimate films being successful. And it’s just making the audience dumber and dumber.
And I’ll say this about the independent action film scene: it’s whack. Social media, YouTube, followers, subscribers, “content creators”, it’s all fucked. I know I sound like a huge hypocrite, being essentially a “YouTube filmmaker”, but it’s like how I feel about working or the concept of money. I hate the idea of working a bullshit job to make some bullshit money, but you do what you gotta do. The social media scene and using it to market is essential for making a successful film. But I can’t stand it. It’s like you’re pretending to be something that you’re not and you have a film or video (or…ugh, “content”) that you’re pretending is better than it is just to entertain the legions of 13 year olds who worship the bullshit ground you walk on. I’m all about the independent spirit, man. The spirit is so important to me. That guerrilla filmmaking and the celebration of embracing your limitations. That doesn’t exist anymore.
“It’s hard to maintain your cool when you’ve been doing this for as long as I have, only to find other guys doing some whack-ass shit that appeals to this YouTube generation and then absolutely blows up”
I was on an indie production recently that had a cast and crew of what felt like 30-40 people. Lots of lights, lots of set-ups, lots of this and that. The final film looked and sounded fantastic, but I couldn’t help but feel this …emptiness. I don’t believe in filmmaking by committee, but that’s like how this particular project was made. So vetted, so let’s-please-everybody-and-make-sure-nobody-is-potentially-offended feel. It felt like an indie film trying to be a mainstream big budget film, and to me that just doesn’t work. Technically, sure it’ll fool a lot of people, since it looked and sounded beautiful. But that spirit was totally gone. That honesty, humility, willingness to embrace and work with your shortcomings, that was gone. It was replaced with “slick” production values, hollow storytelling, and the drive to gain more “likes” and more followers and more subscribers… it fucking sickens me. And almost everyone is a dick-rider. You wouldn’t think that on the indie scene, where hardly anyone makes any money off their work. But you can see it. I’m all for personal milestones and such, but stepping stones is another thing. I find it disrespectful.
In all honesty, I’m just a bitter, bitter fuck. I’m like the Bret Hart of the independent action scene because all I do is bitch, bitch, bitch about how things have changed (despite knowing I have no right to complain). But you know, it’s hard to maintain your cool when you’ve been doing this for as long as I have, only to find other guys doing some whack-ass shit that appeals to this YouTube generation and then absolutely blows up. I talk like I’m any different from them, but I know I’m not. And hell, I know there’s a very good possibility that my work just isn’t good. But I’m so stuck in my ways that I refuse to acknowledge the credibility of anything that comes out anymore, mainstream or independent. And I’m fine with that. I’m also downright positive that my thoughts and feelings and just general attitude towards the current state of filmmaking won’t get me anywhere and will be the biggest barrier that keeps me from eventually succeeding. And… I’m fine with that.
And what do you say to those who say “Leroy Nguyen will never make it. He’s not playing by the rules…”
They’re probably right, but they can also probably go fuck themselves with their sterile, cookie-cutter, bullshit-ass wannabe-Hollywood movies.
Leroy Nguyen’s latest award-winning short, Silverback, is currently available to watch. His first feature, Black Scar Blues, which has been selected to screen at the upcoming Chungju International Martial Arts and Action Film Festival, is currently available on YouTube, Google Play, VUDU, Playstation Store and Apple iTunes. DVD copies are available at Amazon, Barnes & Noble and Walmart.
Cool, very interested to check out the work at supplied links..
He reminds me aesthetically of an underground guy working in Australia called Mathew Victor Pastor.. The mish-mash shot in indie style.. Though Leroy’s look much more up my alley as Mathew’s are basically communist films. I’m interested to see martial arts movies cross into different artistic territories and it looks like thats what Leroy is doing.
I do not understand the disclaimer at start of interview – nothing was overly controversial at all!
You didn’t think it was. But you’re not one of the 1.4 billion from China. You also aren’t a “sterile, cookie-cutter, bullshit-ass wannabe” lol
I liked Crazy Rich Asians. All those years to get those two movies done? The film business is waaaaay not for me.
Great interview! I’ll have to check this guys work out, anyone who’s ballsy enough to admit that ‘Brother’ is their favorite Takeshi Kitano joint, once had an idea to make a ‘Face/Off’ inspired flick with Seagal and JCVD, and wants to cast Choi Min-sik in their dream project, definitely has my attention.
Van Damme would need to be like Eddy Murphy in the Nutty Professor to become Seagal!
Great interview. Nice to see BROTHER getting some love. However this sentence is confusing me…
“I WOULD say something starring Beat Takeshi as well, but outside of Blood and Bone, I’ve only really liked him as an actor in the films he’s directed himself”
Kitano aint in Blood and Bone?! EDIT: Ah… Blood and BoneS.
Surely Battle Royale would be in that list too.
Will have to check out some of Nguyen work.
The man has great taste, and I also agree with pretty much all of his “controversial opinions”. I’m gonna have to check out Black Scar Blues and Silverback.