“Detective vs. Sleuths” Theatrical Poster
Director: Wai Ka-fai
Cast: Lau Ching-Wan, Charlene Choi, Raymond Lam, Carman Lee, Tan Kai, Carlos Chan, Kathy Yuen
Running Time: 102 min.
By Paul Bramhall
Practically everything about Detective vs. Sleuths on paper indicates it’s a sequel to the 2007 Milkyway classic Mad Detective. Wai Ka-Fai back in the director’s chair? Check. Lau Ching-Wan playing a mentally unbalanced but brilliant detective? Check. Mostly set at night on the streets of Hong Kong? Check. However, onscreen it soon becomes clear that it’s not. For a start, Lau Ching-Wan’s character has both of his ears, which is the first dead giveaway. So in that regard it’s more of a thematic sequel, despite the shared character traits, in many ways reminiscent of Jackie Chan’s character in 2005’s The Myth and 2017’s Kung Fu Yoga. Basically the same, and yet somehow different. If I was a cynical kind of guy I may theorize that the characters in the 2000’s productions are for a Hong Kong audience, and the characters in the post 2000’s productions are made to be digestible for Mainland distribution.
The plot sees a cop killer on the loose in Hong Kong, and while the force believe they’ve caught the murderer (a mentally challenged father who’s shot dead during an attempted arrest), Ching-Wan believes it’s a stich up and that the real murderer is still on the loose. His decision to convey his theory by gate-crashing a press conference, in which he lambasts his superiors for all to see, soon sees him released from duty. Spending the next 17 years in a downward spiral to the point he’s homeless and living beneath an underpass, Ching-wan spends his days scribbling his theories around unsolved cases on pieces of cardboard. However when a vigilante group called ‘The Chosen Sleuths’ emerges, who are murdering accused criminals associated with cold cases (and even leaving the case numbers for the cops to know who they’ll be targeting next), Ching-Wan forces himself back into the fold to get to the bottom of who they are.
Frankly it’s great to see Ching-wan back in a role that fully utilises his acting ability. For more than 10 years he’s been awkwardly cast in action roles in the likes of The White Storm, Call of Heroes, and Shock Wave 2, none of which have done him any favours. A charismatic actor, yes, an action lead, no. Re-united with director Ka-Fai for the first time since 2009’s Written By (which was the duo’s next movie directly after Mad Detective), the pair clearly work well together as director and star, and watching Ching-wan talk to people who aren’t there and chase winged demons is undeniably fun.
Following Written By Ka-Fai would go on to co-direct 2011’s Don’t Go Breaking My Heart with frequent collaborator Johnnie To, and that would be the last we’d see of him in the director’s chair for the next 11 years, with Detective vs. Sleuths being his first time to return to helming a movie for over a decade. For those wondering what he was up to during that time, Ka-Fai has mainly stuck to writing and producing, taking on both roles for the likes of 2013’s Drug War and 2019’s Chasing Dream (both directed by Johnnie To) amongst others. His return is equally notable for what’s absent, with Mad Detective co-director To here missing in action, and Detective vs. Sleuths also switches go-to production house Milky Way (which Ka-Fai co-founded with To) for Emperor Entertainment.
Despite the absence of the distinctive Milky Way logo, there are parts of Ka-Fai’s latest that feel unmistakably Milky Way in style. Particularly the alley way shootout involving the cop killer, everything from the lighting to the gunshot wound blood mist feels like it has the Milkyway stamp on it. On the flip side of the coin, the absence of Johnnie To is felt much more. Placing Mad Detective and Detective vs. Sleuths side by side (regardless of if they’re not officially connected!), it feels like To likely kept Mad Detective’s narrative and tone from falling too far down the ‘mad’ rabbit hole. If it was To that showed a level of restraint, then here Ka-Fai allows proceedings to come off the leash completely, the result of which makes for an incredibly unwieldy rollercoaster ride.
Indeed while on paper Detective vs. Sleuths may sound like a similar broodingly off-kilter thriller, onscreen it seems to have been decked out in an action movies clothing, and one that moves at a relentlessly breathless pace at that. Over the course of the 100-minute runtime we see Ching-wan running through the night market with a pump action shotgun, clinging onto the roof of a car during a vehicular chase, falling from great heights, and (as mentioned earlier) chasing after demons with a machine gun. It’s an unexpected if not entirely unwelcome change of approach from the measured pace of Mad Detective, and action director Jack Wong (Keeper of Darkness, Accident) does a stellar job of keeping the action sequences kinetic and impactful.
However there’s also an underlying feeling that the change of focus to deliver so much action is also to glaze over the fact that elements like characterisation seemed to have had a lot of meat removed from the bone. We learn that ‘The Chosen Sleuths’ are all somehow related to the victims of the unsolved cases that they target, however we never get to know any of them beyond their desire for revenge, and important details about their past are conveyed through exposition from other characters. Similarly for Ching-wan himself, we know that his wife is dead, but only because a character mentions it, even though it seems like an important detail in understanding how he got to be in the state he is today. The “show don’t tell” principle may have been disregarded, however at the same time we know any discussion on mental health doesn’t sit well with the Mainland censors, so the choice to use exposition was likely an intentional one.
Ironically the concessions and workarounds that are now a given for filmmakers who want to release their work on the Mainland sometimes also allows for a certain level of creativity, and here that factor manifests itself through a couple of unexpected character deaths audiences likely won’t see coming. For some the trade-off will be an acceptable one, compensated for by the entertaining action beats that are never far away, while others may understandably be not quite as enamoured.
Ka-Fai populates the supporting cast with a worthy roster of Hong Kong talent. Charlene Choi (New Police Story, Twins Mission) plays the pregnant detective assigned to ‘The Chosen Sleuths’ case along with her husband, also a detective played by Raymond Lam (Saving General Yang, Badges of Fury). Where else other than in Hong Kong cinema will you find a married pair of detectives working the same case, and the whole pregnancy angle has been used in Hong Kong action cinema to create peril (and/or tragedy) since at least the 1980’s. You’d be correct in thinking that Detective vs. Sleuths isn’t going to be the movie to buck that trend. Making a surprise return to the screen is Carmen Lee as the police commissioner, who except for a small role in 2015’s 12 Golden Ducks, hasn’t been seen since her 90’s heyday in the likes of Knock Off, Legend of the Wolf, and Burning Paradise.
Despite the expectations associated with a reunion between Wai Ka-Fai and Lau Ching-Wan, the best way to approach Detective vs. Sleuths is like a 1990’s Hong Kong action cinema throwback. Like a lot of HK’s output during that decade, the plot has clearly had more attention paid to it than a lot of the on-the-fly productions of the 1980’s had, and the action goes for a go big or go home approach with a mix of bullets, explosions, and serviceable CGI (personally it gains extra good will just for avoiding any use of CGI cars). The end result may feel like a speeding train that could go off the rails at any point, but for the most part Ka-Fai manages to keep the rust of 11 years not being in the director’s chair at bay, even without Johnnie To and Milkyway by his side. Plus, where else can you see Ching-Wan paying homage to a Jason Statham scene from Crank!? Detective vs. Sleuths is that movie.
Paul Bramhall’s Rating: 7/10
I liked Mad Detective, so I would give this a chance if it’s similar.
I know Lau Ching-Wan’s more recent action films sucked, but I can’t blame him for that. Those movies would have been equally bad with another star. He was a credible action hero in 1996’s Big Bullet, but most of his other action pictures didn’t have that level of fun to them. (Who knew a reunion with Benny Chan wouldn’t work in Call of Heroes?) People might say it was a fluke, but I hold Big Bullet in high regard.
Wai Ka-Fai has been hit and miss with me. Even though his 1995 effort Peace Hotel got some acclaim with people calling it a “Ramen Western,” I found it to be very boring and un-engaging except for a Django inspired machine gun scene.
It’s pretty sad that the NRTA frowns upon mental health issues in film. I suppose the Chinese government as a whole doesn’t believe they exist.
“Who knew a reunion with Benny Chan wouldn’t work in Call of Heroes?”
I’m going to call it – I did – after their reunion in 2013’s ‘The White Storm’, a movie I’ve consistently failed to block from my memory ever since I had the misfortune of watching it at the time of its release.
On a sidenote, I believe the best way to watch ‘Peace Hotel’ uncut these days is the old Optimum Asia DVD from the UK, since the 2019 Hong Kong Blu-ray and DVD release has cut the machine gun scene for violence.
I guess I did such a good job at blocking it from my mind, that I forgot Chan directed White Storm. I guess director and star had a double dose of bad luck with each other in that time period.
I watched Peace Hotel on an older Mei Ah DVD. Even the Mei Ah re-issue was cut. It’s just a shame that something inspired by Sergio Leone didn’t have any of that familiar flavor.
It is good that Lau Ching-Wan found himself in a good project. Not only does he need to avoid bad action films, he also needs to avoid bad comedies where he’s forced to impersonate Mr Bean!
Aw man, am I the only one that thought ‘Call of Heroes’ was actually pretty good? I enjoyed that flick for what it was. Now ‘The White Storm,’ yeah, that one was a disappointment. However, it paved the way for ‘The White Storm 2,’ so I can’t hold too much of a grudge.
No, you’re one of only two. 🙂
Impressive return from Wai Ka-fai. 8.25/10
A semi review of my own, regarding some of your comments.
You stated quite few odd and puzzling statements, its almost as if you are talking about a different person,
You said he is not suitable for action lead roles? Are you joking or being serious?
– The Bullet Vanishes;
Great action film where he performed excellently,
– The Vanishing murderer, another action film where he had an excellent performance,
– Warriors of Future; 2nd highest grossing Chinese film in Hong Kong History, and Ching Wan Lau as one of the 2 main characters performed his role excellently,
He genuinely does great in action films, in many movies in his filmography he has displayed excellent performances in action films,
– You mentioned The White Storm, and you said it did him no favours…, well he was nominated for several awards for his role in The White Storm, (Hong Kong Award, Golden Horse Award)
– also the general consensus for The White storm is that it is definitely not as bad as you try to convey,
61% in rotten tomatoes audience score from over 100 people,
6.6 imdb is also not bad;
Some films that have won Baftas and even nominated for Oscars normally get anything from 6.5 to 8 on imdb
– Call of Heroes
Rotten tomatoes doesn’t seem to hate it; critics and audiences.
– The Shock wave 2 that you mentioned is not really a typical action/combat film in that sense, it’s about difusing bombs, its like any drama role.
Also you are saying that he didn’t properly showcase his abilities in The White Storm?
You must not have watched the full movie; a scene as gripping as the one where he is grief struck in hospital when he is not able to come to terms with the fact that he had to pick which police partner of his had to die, is one of the most heart wrenching scenes you can see, and he displays this so well; almost too well, to the point that it’s difficult/almost unbearable to watch as a viewer because of how well he portrays those subtle layers of extreme and excruciating grief. That scene as well as various others in The White Storm clearly demonstrate how he does clearly show his ability very well in that film.
In Call of Heroes you can’t flaw Ching wan’s acting, action scenes, unique weaponry, and excellent combat scenes;
Sammo hung choreographed the action scenes and Sammo Hung was nominated for a Hong kong award as a result.
Not doing a lot of Martial art films doesn’t mean that he hasn’t done a lot of great action films, past and present; Ching wan has not done many martial art films in the past few decades but when he did, he was amazing, and for him to learn to use that whip style weapon in such an epic manner for Call of Heroes was just a bonus for viewers. He has however done many action films over the past 3 decades as the lead and his performance is amazing every time. So to say he is not an action lead actor… Very Strange statement.
That aside, generally speaking in all areas of acting including – but not just action or drama roles, around the world, you can’t find many actors that can match Ching Wan when he’s at his best, so you should probably put some proper respect on his name. Ching wan at his best, is undoubtedly one of the best actors in the past few decades globally.
Some directors let him down, and he’s also made to do some odd same language dubbing, as in even in his native cantonese language, they sometimes record the cantonese words/dialogue separately and it’s sometimes noticeably different to what his mouth is actually saying, this was also noticeable in Detective vs Sleuths as well, nonetheless even with all these difficulties and challenges that he has to deal with, he consistently brings breath-taking performances, and as much as some of that dubbing type effect frustrates me in Detective vs Sleuths (which ofcourse is no fault of Ching Wan Lau’s) many of the moments Ching Wan Lau delivers in Detective vs Sleuth, are unbelievably good.
Call of heroes may not be your type of film, but for you to say that it’s so terrible, I think that is very far fetched. Opinions are opinions, but reviews that are meant to come across as professional, should probably try not to be too irresponsible or seem like careless youtube comments.
The White Storm did have 1 or 2 odd holes in its plot, like Nick Cheung’s involvement with the drug lord etc, But Ching Wan Lau’s performance in that is undeniably amazing, I find it hard to watch the film because of how traumatised his character was and how well he portrayed it.
They even brought Ching Wan Lau back in The White Storm 3, His character died in The White storm, yet they still found a way to bring him back as another character in The White storm 3, That’s how good he is in those roles, I’ve yet to see The White Storm 3, but I’m looking forward to it, it just shows how important he is to the film, almost like they just don’t want to do it without him, understandbly so.
It does seem that you have stated some very misleading statements, that are quite frankly just not reflective of Ching Wan Lau’s career at all.
Ching Wan Lau is versatile for practically limitless types of roles, and you can see this from his awards and filmography, also everywhere you look whether online articles, videos or even magazines, critics, reviews etc, He gets huge praise consistently for over 2 to 3 decades for his incredible acting and performances in various roles, and alot of the time he does not have a lot to work with.
As I mentioned some of the Hong kong scripts and directing do have some huge holes in them, but those holes are covered by great actors like Ching Wan Lau, ‘reviews’ such as yours with such irresponsible and careless statements do him a great disservice, ofcourse there are not many reviews like the one you have written, because his ability and performances all round are undoubtable and undeniable, but a few statements in this review you have written was hard to ignore.
Wait a moment please, Mr A. I don’t agree with everything Paul writes, but he doesn’t mislead people.
Just because a film has a high score on Rotten Tomatoes or award nominations and wins doesn’t automatically make it immune to criticism. Alan Arkin won an Academy Award for Little Miss Sunshine despite the fact that he was a dead body for 90% of the movie.
Keep in mind that Rotten Tomatoes also compiles reviews from non-professional critics, and sometimes a high or low score is determined by how many of them bothered to watch a movie.
Lau Ching Wan can be great in action films. I also liked The Bullet Vanishes and The Vanishing Murderer although they might be categorized as more “Thrillers.” I wished he would do another movie as good as Big Bullet. The White Storm 3 appears to be what the first two movies should have been. (And it’s not a surprise that he was brought back. He’s just playing a different character like other actors have in other in-name sequels.)
It’s important to be constructive with criticism.
For Paul to say that Ching Wan Lau is not suitable for an action lead is misleading, especially for those who have not watched alot of his films, for him to say that, is not a truly accurate analysis, when Ching Wan Lau has proven to be very suitable countless times, ofcourse I’m not saying he intentionally misled anyone, but it is misleading nonetheless, and that is what I said originally, I said ‘the statements are misleading’.
However, the fact that its a review from 1 person, means that ofcourse that person’s opinions will be seen in that review which is normal, but my point is that certain statements are somewhat irresponsible and should be handled better, especially coming from someone who is seemingly presenting it as a professional bit of writing on a professional platform.
When I read your previous comments I didn’t feel the need to write anything, as much as I didn’t agree, and whether I agreed or not I generally try not to focus on people’s comments too much, because in the comments section people just say anything at times, but I’m thinking we should expect a higher standard from the reviewer. It was your conversation with the reviewer that made me look at the comments further.
– which brings me to the point that: I never said rotten tomatoes or reviews, makes a film good or immune to criticism, you guys were presenting it like it is the general consensus that those films were terrible; the films were not been given a fair overview, so I just showed facts in context to what you were saying, on an online platform when talking about general consensus; those are some of the most reasonable things we can point to, reviews, ratings, awards, box office, and then your own personal experience of the film; that personal experience or view/opinion doesn’t have to agree with that general consensus; I like many films that were given no awards and low ratings, and I dislike some films that are given awards high ratings, so at no point did I say those things (like ratings or awards etc) are what makes a film immune to criticism, what I said, was for the purpose of bringing some balance to how you were representing the films as huge fails. When classifying a film as a fail, normally it is based on audience, critics (even though I do think some films are given unfairly low ratings) and box office etc, and then also one’s opinion comes to play, but an opinion is not/or should not be the overriding factor when labelling a film as a fail in a professional review, there are certain films that I don’t like for various reasons, but if I was writing a professional review for a professional platform, no matter how much I wanted to I couldn’t label those films as fails just because I didn’t like them. Somethings stated in the review and by the reviewer in the comments we’re not necessarily criticism or opinions, just somewhat unjust statements. Also just to point out even though I reference critics, I’m not a big believer in the standard of critics nowadays, but I mention the critics and other aspects just to paint a fairer picture, on the other hand some critics do still have valid expertise and a high level understanding of filmmaking.
I do believe these actors deserve more consideration when analysing their work.
– No one else came back for The White Storm 3 in the manner Ching Wan Lau has, I’m not talking about other films (because The White Storm is the film in question), Nick Cheung obviously didn’t come back in any of the sequels, the point is Ching Wan Lau coming back in the manner that he did shows how much they value him in that film.
A few final points:
– If you are referring to The Vanishing Bullet and The Vanishing Murderer as thrillers, then Shock Wave 2 is a drama/thriller and The White storm has shoot outs in the end and the beginning, but majority of the middle of the film is like a drama, so those 2 films he said Ching Wan Lau was not suitable for can’t be classed as typical action films if The Vanishing can’t be, either way however we chose to class any of those films, his performance was good in all, but again that is relatively based on my opinion but also the general consensus doesn’t indicate that many people disliked it.
– I think for Paul to say that The White Storm, Call of Heroes and Shock Wave 2 didn’t didn’t do him any favours, I don’t see how that makes sense, based on what?
Are we talking about critically? Because he had positive reviews, if we are talking about awards? He was nominated for two, box office? The films were a success (The White Storm and Shock Wave 2 each individually almost made 1 quarter of a Billion dollars world wide, Call of Heroes didn’t reach those box office numbers, but was regarded quite highly by audiences and critics), ofcourse box office doesn’t always indicate if a film is good but it can be part of the overall analysis, and for Hong Kong films a box office success is not always the same as USA Box office success, so some numbers that may seem low overall are still very good for some Hong Kong films, and in regards to critics; critics are not always reliable but at the same time can’t always be dismissed), but if Paul is saying that it didn’t do Ching Wan Lau any favours in regards to his craft as an actor, then that is subjective, but from any reasonable perspective his acting in those films definetly cannot be deemed not good enough, even if you didn’t love it, so again overall such statements were somewhat perplexing.
Ultimately I’m not entirely surprised that you replied in his defence because you were already pretty much in agreement with each other to begin with. But Nothing that I wrote in my previous comment is unreasonable at all, if you read everything I wrote, at no point did I say anything that was unjustified or false.
It does slightly seem like you are defending you’re friend, which is not necessarily a wrong thing to do. But ironically that is not necessarily the most constructive approach to take. But that is only my assumption that you are defending someone you have good rapport with, particularly based on how you seemed to have missed a lot of what was clear in what I wrote.
I did already mention im my previous post, that in reviews it is audience and critics, so I am also aware that some critics are non professional, ofcourse many of the audience are none professional as well, and most of the time it’s normal and healthy for people to have their opinions.
What I wrote was very constructive, I supported what I say with facts, I also give examples, I also leave room for opinions and subjective analysis which is a big part of audience experiences, and I also gave my view, and I also highlighted a more general view, how more constructive can I be in this instance. Some statements written in his review and the disregard/tongue and cheek half insults regarding certain films is what is not constructive, ofcourse I am courteous and civil when replying to those comments, but if I didn’t address it properly or adequately then there would be no point of addressing it at all.
Based on what you have written in your reply to my comment, I do respect you’re take on movies, and in my opinion you’re general analysis regarding films and filmmaking are not false, but even if I didn’t agree with your analysis on films it doesn’t matter because we are different people with different views, but if the review had the same tone when analysing films or actors as your reply to my comment did in regards to films, then I wouldn’t have bothered to comment, primarily because their were no outrageous statements etc.
I have never commented on a review in my life, and as an artist myself, I know it is normal to see various types of reviews, I am extremely conditioned when looking at reviews, I literally just accidentally came across this one and I was genuinely in shock and I just ended up writing.
Also, it is possible that you will see an action film from Ching Wan Lau not too far from now that may surpass you’re admiration for Big Bullet, I know he may not be 35 yrs old anymore, but look out in the next 2 to 3 years.
Glad the review made you find your way to COF M. A, and your passion for Lau Ching-Wan as an actor clearly comes through! You can check out all of our reviews for Lau Ching-Wan movies via this link, which includes his most recent ‘The White Storm 3: Heaven or Hell’, and also ‘Shock Wave 2’ and ‘Warriors of Future’ that you mentioned.
Worth noting that if Ching-Wan was invited back to star in ‘The White Storm 3’ based on the strength of his performance in the original, then Louis Koo must be the Hong Kong equivalent of Robert De Niro, since he appeared in all 3 playing different characters in each one!
Either way, in 2024 I’ll happily take your advice and aim to achieve a higher standard with my writing, thanks for the comments!
For the purpose of not going back and forth, I don’t plan to comment anymore,
I haven’t got much to add.
So I don’t know when or if I’ll be looking at the post again, if I don’t reply it will most likely be because I have not read it/seen it.
Take Care
Kind Regards